New Card to Review Card Ratio

Chipper's Avatar

Chipper

17 Sep, 2015 04:52 PM

I cannot find any decent discussions regarding the ratio of New cards to Review cards. There are more effective ratios when studying a deck with thousands of cards in it but I am not sure what the ratio would look like. Can someone provide a link please to such a discussion if they know of one.

  1. 1 Posted by Vit on 11 Oct, 2015 02:06 AM

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    As far as i know, there is no 'effective' ratio;
    it depends on your Goal.

    One post struck me - the poster;s goal was to read in Foreign language ASAP.
    So he is introducing 30 words a day -- to learn 1500 a year.
    If that is your goal - you want to try a Hybrid of Paper cards ( not Pimsleur ) and Anki ;
    that is what i use and very happy with it.

  2. 2 Posted by ZapBeeb on 11 Oct, 2015 01:53 PM

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    Isn't it the other way around?

    You choose the number of cards to learn every day and this, coupled with the difficulty of the deck, determines the number of card you are reviewing.
    How are you supposed to choose the ratio?

    Vit, could you elaborate on your Hybrid method?

  3. 3 Posted by Vit on 10 Nov, 2015 02:04 AM

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    Hi ZapBeeb.

    could you elaborate on your Hybrid method?

    • I do the ( Vocabulary ) Initial Learning and Review cards using paper cards ( Attached ) until the ivl is about 30d.

    • EDITED: I do not Lapse cards - i switch to Paper cards and re-learn/study there until the interval is about 30-90 days.

      • I am skipping the 'whys' for now.
      • A cardboard 20" x 30" can accommodate 31 Pockets (for 31 days ) to hold 3" x 5" flashcards. Pockets labeled 1 thru 31; they are to hold Scheduled cards; the interval is based on a few factors ( ignored by SRS programs).
      • A card will be studied on paper until ivl is about 30 days.

        Eleven more pockets are for these Tasks:

    • To Cram today

    • To translate - cards heard on TV and radio.

    • Back to ANki ( Lapsed cards; will be rescheduled in groups of 10-20 or so ).

    • Ready to be added to Anki ( cards which started on paper;
      has been 'polished' for 30 days or so.
      They will be rescheduled for 60 days to 90 days, in groups of 10-20.

    • Statistics for the first Learning Step, in minutes;

    • stats. in Days, for Graduated Interval.

    • Statistics for Lapsed cards in minutes or days .

    PS. This is still WIP :-(

  4. 4 Posted by ZapBeeb on 15 Nov, 2015 09:24 AM

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    Hi ZapBeeb.

    Hi, Vit! :D

    could you elaborate on your Hybrid method?

    I do the ( Vocabulary ) Initial Learning and Review cards using paper cards ( Attached ) until the ivl is about 30d.

    Why the pocket template is on the back of the card? :|

    I do not Lapse cards - i switch to Paper cards and re-learn/study there until the interval is about same as at lapsing ( Actual ivl, including Overdue days ).

    So, when in Anki you fail a card you switch back to the paper card?

    I am skipping the 'whys' for now.

    Well, don't :D

    A cardboard 20" x 30" can acommodate 31 Pockets (for 31 days ) to hold 3" x 5" flashcards. Pockets labeled 1 thru 31; they are to hold Scheduled cards; the interval is based on a few factors ( ignored by SRS programs).

    Factors such as?

    A card will be studied on paper until ivl is about 30 days.

    ivl=interval value, i see now...

    Eleven more pockets are for these Tasks:

    To Cram today

    To translate - cards heard on TV and radio.

    Back to ANki ( Lapsed cards; will be rescheduled in groups of 10-20 or so ).

    Wait, shouldn't this be back from anki? Aren't lapsed cards brought from anki to this system?

    Ready to be added to Anki ( cards which started on paper; has been 'polished' for 30 days or so.
    They will be rescheduled for 60 days to 90 days, in groups of 10-20.

    Statistics for the first Learning Step, in minutes;

    stats. in Days, for Graduated Interval.

    Statistics for Lapsed cards in minutes or days .

    Manually following stats seems a bit time consuming to me... is it?

    PS. This is still WIP :-(

    Thank you for sharing anyway :)

  5. 5 Posted by Vit on 22 Nov, 2015 04:02 AM

    Vit's Avatar

    Hi, ZapBeeb.
    Your requests forced me to put my Paper cards Process in order - thank you.

    Why the pocket template is on the back of the card? :|

    :-) to confuse you... There was a room there - i did not want to make a 3rd Att.

    So, when in Anki you fail a card you switch back to the paper card?

    Yes, if Mature ( >30d Actual ivl ) card lapses,
    and Anki does not offer an acceptable Interval,
    i Mark and Suspend it and:
    * make another Paper card ( short version of Anki card).
    I do not go 'back' to the existing ( somewhere :-) ) card.

    The 'whys' of Paper cards)

    Here is why i started learning New cards on Paper ;
    and also relearn Lapsed cards there, too:

    • Intervals for Learning and Young and early mature cards are either too long or too short;
      i have tried Rescheduling; have used Tags for scheduling - in Mnemosyne; switching Options_Groups on-the-fly; Max_Interval; AutoIt macros. Paper cards finally prevailed.
    • The 'fuzz' on intervals 1 - 5 d is not altering those numbers.
    • avoided the Lapsing 'penalty' of being thrown back to the start.
    • Card formatting is very easy; i can do anything on the spur of the moment; and only 'this' card is affected.
    • I can carry Paper cards with me and study them thru the day.
    • I will not 'loose' fresh New cards because the Review card limit would keep them in limbo.
    • My 'Last Review date' on paper is always up-to-date, whereas Rescheduling in Anki is not recorded in the 'Last Reviewed' column.
    • My 'Last Interval' is always Actual !
    • I stopped using the add-on 'Card Info' bec the "Last interval" is not actual; all info i need is on paper card.
    • I can 'bury' paper card to review them again ( if i hesitated to answer or it was on the tip of my tongue but i did not recall it ).
    • I can flip-flop from Passive to Active card by turning a card over.
    • Paper is easier on the eyes.
    • Less time is spent SITTING at PC.
    • Going thru Paper cards is not tiring at all ; just go from room to room.
    • I can 'Review cards in order ' - on every review' - by folding a sheet of paper 3 times and enter up to Six cards. First, i learn card A; after 3-5 reps i put a check mark 'sus' = Suspended.
      Now i tackle card B, C, .......A again.
    • Easy to put any Comment on the card.
    • i can mark Vacation and OFF days ( on the Pockets ) and avoid scheduling cards for those days.
    • i can balance the load continuously - i see how 'thick' the group of cards on any day is ( i made pockets of certain thickness to aid with this )
    • I can see the History of as many Reps as i need - i pencil them in on the card.
    • New cards are White; Lapsed - Yellow; it helps.
    • Sometimes during Review process, you may need to write a 'to do' note quickly; grab the card, write it and schedule :-)
      You never loose the note; and it is lightening fast !

    the interval is based on a few factors ( not used by SRS programs).

    Factors such as?

    • How familiar i am with this card.
    • Prompting effect from a related card reviewed recently;
      or i heard the word on TV or saw it in the book.
    • Have i recalled it Last time only after looking at the Mnemonics ? ( 'M' is put on the card ).
    • Have i recalled it Last time only after looking at the Sample phrase ? ( 'S' ..............).
    • Thinking time is taken into account; indicated by dots at the interval : 12** ; ** means 'i hesitated for 2 sec'.
    • I can SEE the Actual interval .

    One may think it is too much to think about; but after a while it is all internalized and on auto-pilot.
    At any rate, the benefit is worth the efforts for me.

    A pocket called 'Back to Anki' ( for ALREADY RELEARNED Lapsed cards; they will be rescheduled in groups of 10 or so ).

    Wait, shouldn't this Pocket be 'Back from ank'i?
    Aren't lapsed cards brought from anki to this system?

    When Mature card lapsed, i make a Paper card ( short version: no Sample sentence, no Mnemonics -- for Now) ... and put it in Today pocket.
    At night, i review it again and schedule for 2 days.
    When i feel it is time to put ALREADY RELEARNED Lapsed card back to Anki, i put it in the pocket 'Back to Anki' and reschedule them with an interval 2-3 times larger then the last paper card ivl.

    Manually following stats seems a bit time consuming to me... is it?

    Not at all;
    first, it is only for the FIRST rep for New cards and
    First rep after lapsing - for lapsed Review cards .
    Second, I do it on a Paper Form which is placed in its own pocket -- easy to 'find'.
    Third, i will NOT forget to do it because when i Reschedule Relearned paper cards , i can see the Interval on the top of card.

  6. 6 Posted by ZapBeeb on 22 Nov, 2015 09:21 PM

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    Hi, ZapBeeb.

    Hi, Vit :-P

    Your requests forced me to put my Paper cards Process in order - thank you.

    You are welcome!

    Why the pocket template is on the back of the card? :|

    :-) to confuse you... There was a room there - i did not want to make a 3rd Att.

    How nice of you. :-D
    I sort of figured it, just wanted to be sure...

    All the process is quite interesting, i'm not sure i get it entirely.
    It seems to me that a few of your complaints can be solved by using the mobile app, be it Ankidroid or Anki on IOS. Am i missing something?

  7. 7 Posted by Vit on 29 Nov, 2015 01:50 AM

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    Hi, ZapBeeb.

    All the process is quite interesting, i'm not sure i get it entirely.

    As you know, to figure out someone's process, one ought to gingerly try it .
    Evidently, i omitted many details not knowing if you would be interested ...

    It seems to me that a few of your complaints can be solved by using the mobile app,
    be it Ankidroid or Anki on IOS.

    I just had a quick reed of Droid-X manual :-(
    There is Nothing there that peeked my interest;
    besides, the Syncing generates one too many user's calls for help.

    Which of my 'complains' you think will be solved by Android ?

    Am i missing something?

    I did not get it; can you please elaborate ?

    PS. Recently, i came across 2 posts where the user describes Special situations when Paper cards are an attractive alternative; here they are:

    • etapley: Sometimes it's easier to do things outside of Anki (... from a text file or index / Paper card, ..).

    • etapley: If I had quizzes on new information twice weekly,
      I might study the NEW information outside of Anki.
      I would still use Anki, but more for long-term retention.

  8. 8 Posted by ZapBeeb on 29 Nov, 2015 09:17 AM

    ZapBeeb's Avatar

    Hi, ZapBeeb.

    All the process is quite interesting, i'm not sure i get it entirely.

    As you know, to figure out someone's process, one ought to gingerly try it . Evidently, i omitted many details not knowing if you would be interested ...

    At the moment i am quite good with Anki, but i am starting to see how some steps are sub-optimal... so... who knows.

    Plus, you wrote gingerly!
    This is a word i dropped in anki not so long ago, and this is the first time i found it in the wild since!
    I always like it when that happens :-D

    It seems to me that a few of your complaints can be solved by using the mobile app, be it Ankidroid or Anki on IOS.

    I just had a quick reed of Droid-X manual :-( There is Nothing there that peeked my interest; besides, the Syncing generates one too many user's calls for help.

    I have to say this was the case for a brief time about one year ago.
    At the moment the syncing works flawlessly and i had no problem whatsoever in the rest of my ankidroid experience.

    Which of my 'complains' you think will be solved by Android ?

    I think they are minor complaints so it might not be such an useful thing, but...

    I can carry Paper cards with me and study them thru the day. Less time is spent SITTING at PC.

    By doing card reviews on your phone these are certainly not going to be problems.
    Though they are, again, very minor...

    PS. Recently, i came across 2 posts where the user describes Special situations >when Paper cards are an attractive alternative; here they are:

    etapley: Sometimes it's easier to do things outside of Anki (... from a text file or index / Paper card, ..).

    etapley: If I had quizzes on new information twice weekly, I might study the NEW information outside of Anki. I would still use Anki, but more for long-term retention.

    I missed that post...

    I also thought of a first phase out of anki, but for different reasons.
    Truth is, this is a quite new frontier...

    PS: Did you take the "learning how to learn" MOOC on Coursera? I found it interesting. Not groundbreaking but interesting.

  9. 9 Posted by Vit on 30 Nov, 2015 06:53 PM

    Vit's Avatar

    Hi ZapBeeb

    ... i am starting to see how some steps are sub-optimal... so... who knows.

    Some steps ???
    Defaults are set for a virtual average user! We are not average.
    If you subscribe to that, the next is to say: "The further you are from an' average' user,
    the more the product usability Decreases".
    Yes, Anki is very adoptable but not in the most important area - INTERVALS for New, Young , and early mature cards.
    That's why Paper cards.

    Plus, you wrote gingerly! This is a word i dropped in anki not so long ago, and this is the first time i found it in the wild since!
    I always like it when that happens :-D

    We are in sync - i got it 2 mo ago from very funny ( intelligent funny ) book by Brison "Walk in the woods".
    What amases me is that when i am engossed in something and TV is on, i do not hear anything UNTIL a newly learned word ( since the beginning of using SRS ~3 years) was uttered !
    The word screams "I am here, i am here , you know me !" That is the 'Yahooooo !' moment for me, too !!!

    I think yours are minor complaints ...

    Oh, my! Can you please reconsider, 'your honor' ? :-)
    How could these points be called 'minor' :

    • Intervals for Learning and Young and early mature cards are either too long or too short.
    • Avoided the Lapsing 'penalty' of being thrown back to the start.
    • i can mark Vacation and OFF days ( on the Pockets ) and avoid scheduling cards for those days.
    • i can balance the load continuously - i see how 'thick' the group of cards on any day is ( i made pockets of certain thickness to aid with this )
    • I can see the History of as many Reps as i need - i pencil them in on the card.
    • Card formatting is very easy; i can do anything on the spur of the moment; and only 'this' card is affected.
    • I will not 'loose' fresh New cards because the Review card limit
      or Overdue cards would keep them in limbo.
    • I can flip-flop from Passive to Active card, as often as i need,
      by turning a card over thus never encounter these 2 card close to each other.
    • Going thru Paper cards is not tiring at all .
    • Easy to put any Comment on the card.

    At the moment the syncing works flawlessly and
    i had no problem whatsoever in the rest of my ankidroid experience.

    Thank you for the useful feedback !

    Did you take the "learning how to learn" MOOC on Coursera?
    I found it interesting. Not groundbreaking but interesting.

    No, i did not. But i just looked at the bullet points - theory, theory; i had enough of it;
    I do not expect much of the practical tips. Look at user's feedback - all elated ( too good to be true ).
    Besides, most of the videos i watched ( includung Anki's ) are torturously slow,
    haphazardly put, repleat with superfluosities and redundancies.

  10. 10 Posted by ZapBeeb on 30 Nov, 2015 08:42 PM

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    Hi ZapBeeb

    Hi again :-)

    ... i am starting to see how some steps are sub-optimal... so... who knows.

    Some steps ??? Defaults are set for a virtual average user! We are not average. If you subscribe to that, the next is to say: "The further you are from an' average' >user, the more the product usability Decreases". Yes, Anki is very adoptable but not in the most important area - INTERVALS for New, Young , and early mature cards. That's why Paper cards.

    Ok, i admit i did not elaborate very much on that.
    Customization is something i left behind, i know it is foolish and i'll fix this sooner or later.

    Plus, you wrote gingerly! This is a word i dropped in anki not so long ago, and this is the first time i found it in the wild since! I always like it when that happens :-D

    We are in sync - i got it 2 mo ago from very funny ( intelligent funny ) book by Brison "Walk in the woods". What amases me is that when i am engossed in something and TV is on, i do not hear anything UNTIL a newly learned word ( since the beginning of using SRS ~3 years) was uttered ! The word screams "I am here, i am here , you know me !" That is the 'Yahooooo !' moment for me, too !!!

    Yes, when this happens while listening it is even better!

    I think yours are minor complaints ...

    Oh, my! Can you please reconsider, 'your honor' ? :-) How could these points be called 'minor' :

    Wait wait, please don't let me be misunderstood. :-P

    What i was saying, if you look closely at what i wrote, is that the use of ankidroid or anki for IOS would have solved two issues you mentioned (and then i quoted them) and that THESE TWO ISSUES seemed to me 'minor' compared to the other you raised.

    Intervals for Learning and Young and early mature cards are either too long or too short. Avoided the Lapsing 'penalty' of being thrown back to the start. i can mark Vacation and OFF days ( on the Pockets ) and avoid scheduling cards for those days. i can balance the load continuously - i see how 'thick' the group of cards on any day is ( i made pockets of certain thickness to aid with this )

    It wouldn't be half bad if Anki had an option to "even out" the number of due cards between days when moving a card from one day to the other would not make the learning interval much different (i.e. we are talking about mature cards with long intervals).

    I can see the History of as many Reps as i need - i pencil them in on the card. Card formatting is very easy; i can do anything on the spur of the moment; and only 'this' card is affected.

    Yes.
    I learned "on the spur of the moment" not long ago! :-D

    I will not 'loose' fresh New cards because the Review card limit or Overdue cards would keep them in limbo.
    I can flip-flop from Passive to Active card, as often as i need, by turning a card over thus never encounter these 2 card close to each other.
    Going thru Paper cards is not tiring at all . Easy to put any Comment on the card.

    At the moment the syncing works flawlessly and i had no problem whatsoever in the rest of my ankidroid experience.

    Thank you for the useful feedback !

    You are welcome.

    Did you take the "learning how to learn" MOOC on Coursera? I found it interesting. Not groundbreaking but interesting.

    No, i did not. But i just looked at the bullet points - theory, theory; i had enough of it; I do not expect much of the practical tips. Look at user's feedback - all elated ( too good to be true ). Besides, most of the videos i watched ( includung Anki's ) are torturously slow, haphazardly put, repleat with superfluosities and redundancies.

    As i said, interesting but not groundbreaking.
    Probably it could be really useful for those who still think that reading and underlining is the way to go.

    At the moment i'd like to find a really good book on memonics.

  11. Chipper closed this discussion on 16 Feb, 2016 08:03 PM.

  12. Damien Elmes re-opened this discussion on 23 Feb, 2016 10:50 PM

  13. Chipper closed this discussion on 12 Apr, 2017 03:58 PM.

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